Parenting-Furkids

Cats => Caring For Your Cat => Dental => Topic started by: Middle Child on June 27, 2011, 09:26:35 AM

Title: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on June 27, 2011, 09:26:35 AM
On impulse I caught myself on video brushing The Kitten's teeth one evening with c.e.t. enzymatic veterinary paste, poultry flavor..  This is a nightly event, and all four cats are done.  They did have to go through some training to learn to accept it, but it only takes a few minutes a night for four cats, now. Click on photo to play video

(http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/secondchoice1/teeth%20brushing/th_d1e75d81.jpg) (http://s628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/secondchoice1/teeth%20brushing/?action=view&current=d1e75d81.mp4)
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on June 27, 2011, 09:30:22 AM
You didn't brush for two minutes!!   ;D
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on June 27, 2011, 10:05:12 AM
Ha ha ha! 

Seriously though, that's the beauty of c.e.t.  paste. It's not the brushing/abrasive action that is important.  C.e.t.  just needs to make contact with teeth and gum to do the job. Most pastes you buy for pets is useless.  Animals need an enzymatic paste, enzymatic (for anyone who might not know) means "breaks down bacteria".  Just getting the paste into the pet's mouth is beneficial, but of course daily direct contact with teeth and gums is better.

Lola I wasn't sure where to put this, really.  It comes under cat care, definitely, but then we have this section for videos. Someone wanting to know about brushing their cat's teeth might not think to check the video section.  So I was torn, then figured, well I can always link someone to this thread, if they come looking for help under Cats.

Or I can start a thread on teeth brushing in cats and link to this thread.  Or should it be moved to the cat's section.  arrgh, there I go again.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on June 27, 2011, 10:13:58 AM
Ha ha ha! 

Seriously though, that's the beauty of c.e.t.  paste. It's not the brushing/abrasive action that is important.  C.e.t.  just needs to make contact with teeth and gum to do the job. Most pastes you buy for pets is useless.  Animals need an enzymatic paste, enzymatic (for anyone who might not know) means "breaks down bacteria".  Just getting the paste into the pet's mouth is beneficial, but of course daily direct contact with teeth and gums is better.

Lola I wasn't sure where to put this, really.  It comes under cat care, definitely, but then we have this section for videos. Someone wanting to know about brushing their cat's teeth might not think to check the video section.  So I was torn, then figured, well I can always link someone to this thread, if they come looking for help under Cats.

Or I can start a thread on teeth brushing in cats and link to this thread.  Or should it be moved to the cat's section.  arrgh, there I go again.

Hmmmm  I think cat care seems better.  It is about caring for a cat first...and being a video second.  ??  Let me know, if you want me to move it.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on June 27, 2011, 10:23:06 AM
Hmmmm  I think cat care seems better.  It is about caring for a cat first...and being a video second.  ??  Let me know, if you want me to move it.

Yes please, I agree with you it should be under cat care.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Tasha on June 27, 2011, 01:41:19 PM
We use CET toothpaste too (beef flavor)  thumbsup1

I use the CET little white toothbrush~ it works really well.  Tasha & TT have feline herpes which effects their teeth, and TT's teeth in particular get pretty bad; I really think brushing has helped  ;D

 cat3
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on June 27, 2011, 02:02:39 PM
Yes please, I agree with you it should be under cat care.  Thank you.

Okay...there isn't a Cat Care area.  That wasn't nice of you to trick me.   ;)  Let me see what I can do to MAKE a Cat Care area. 
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on June 27, 2011, 07:59:00 PM
Okay...there isn't a Cat Care area.  That wasn't nice of you to trick me.   ;)  Let me see what I can do to MAKE a Cat Care area. 

LOL! 

Great new section idea. :)
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on June 28, 2011, 09:16:19 AM
We use CET toothpaste too (beef flavor)  thumbsup1

I use the CET little white toothbrush~ it works really well.  Tasha & TT have feline herpes which effects their teeth, and TT's teeth in particular get pretty bad; I really think brushing has helped  ;D

 cat3

It really does make a difference. I am thrilled with the results.  It won't eliminate the need for professional cleanings entirely of course, but it sure is cutting down on the frequency.  None of my younger cats (7, 5 and 1) have needed dentals yet.  My senior boy has had several, but he also has had some resorptive lesions (FORL), he doesn't have many teeth left from that disease, but the ones he does have are clean and tartar free. :)
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on June 29, 2011, 04:53:27 PM
How often do you have your cats' professionally cleaned? 

I have ours checked out by the vet when they go, but none have ever had them cleaned.   :o
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on June 30, 2011, 06:24:03 AM
How often do you have your cats' professionally cleaned? 

I have ours checked out by the vet when they go, but none have ever had them cleaned.   :o

Of the current gang, only my senior boy has ever needed a cleaning, so far, and he has had four, his first being when he was 5 years old.  He gets resorption lesions though, that is one reason he has had so many, and now has hardly any teeth left.  But since I started the daily 'brushing' he was able to go two years without needing a cleaning.

Dental health is largely genetic in cats, and he seems to collect tartar very quickly, which is why he needed his first cleaning when he was five.  It's always a very stressful time because he is my seizure kitty.  He takes phenobarbital, so it is extra scary to me to have him need anesthesia.  But then I switched vets and my lovely new to me then vet told me about c.e.t paste, and things are much better since then.  NO more resportive lesions (though home brushing is not proven to prevent them) and much less tartar.

My seven year old, (FLUTD kitty) adopted when she was one, has sparkling teeth with no tartar.  The five year old, rescued when she was about 2, has some tartar she came with, but it has not progressed to the point of needing a cleaning, and I am sure it is the c.e.t. that is keeping it that way.

The kitten's teeth are shiny clean, as she has been having them brushed since she was 8 weeks old.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on June 30, 2011, 07:12:24 AM
Do you have all 10 of your fingers still?   ;)
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on June 30, 2011, 07:50:52 AM
Do you have all 10 of your fingers still?   ;)

heehee

It wasn't too difficult to train them to accept it.  Just a little time and patience, if it's done right a cat can learn to accept most anything. I have a process.:)

I was really amazed that my FLUTD kitty was able to learn to accept it.  She was unsocialized when I adopted her.  Even after over 6 years, she amazes me every day with the things she has learned to allow.

Title: How to train kitty to accept teeth brushing
Post by: Middle Child on June 30, 2011, 07:52:49 AM
I started by, at the same time every night, just getting them used to me rubbing my finger lightly along their lip line, either side. Most cats like this any way. (if you are planning to use a brush, you might start this with the brush.  I have always just used my finger)

While doing this, I was putting the c.e.t. toothpaste, poultry flavor on a paw for them to lick off, and get used to the taste. (they actually like it!)

This helps them associate the finger (or brush) rubbing along the mouth with the taste of the c.e.t.

Then, I started making the action more purposeful, putting them in the "holding position", which is: me on my knees, feet crossed behind me, cat between my knees facing out.

With cat in holding position, using a little more pressure which parts the lips, I'd be rubbing their teeth and gums instead of the lips, while they get used to me restraining them while doing it. After the action, again, putting a little paste on the paw.

Again, so now they are associating the action with the taste of the c.e.t.

From there, I put the c.e.t. toothpaste on my finger, hold them in position, and rub it into their teeth and gums.

This was a bit messy, so lately I've learned to use my other hand to kind of pry open the lips so I can make direct contact with the molars and gumline.

All this took time of course, but cats can get used to any sort of handling if it's done gradually and gently enough.

Oh,I forgot to mention..I always wash my hands before starting and between each cat.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Tasha on June 30, 2011, 10:04:20 AM
T&T are only 4 years old~ Tasha has not needed a cleaning yet  coolgif2

TT had really bad tartar very early, so he got his first cleaning at the age of 2 and that is when I started his brushing.

Tasha won't let me brush her teeth~ she is really hard to handle  cat2 because the person who fostered her before me didn't handle her much when she was little.  TT was sick as a kitten and had to have a lot of treatments that required him to be handled~ his personality is totally different.

 cat3
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: strykingbearmum on July 04, 2011, 01:01:09 AM
As soon as the babies come into the home here, I start them on a regime of furbrushing, nail clipping, toothbrushing and then the dreaded bath.

I get in the tub with them, and file-trim my nails with them.

The worst experience I've had--- a bath with Tigger the cat.  It was his first, I was naked.   Doh1  NEVER AGAIN!

He is now bathed in the sink, while I massage his demented little body from the safety of the counter!
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on September 15, 2011, 03:29:13 PM
I looked at the c.e.t toothpaste but I'm not comfortable with the ingredients.  I was at my local specialty store and they had several pastes and the PetzLife, but I don't like those ingredients, either (grain alcohol, oils -- essential oils are toxic to cats).  Any recommendations?

Meanwhile, I caved and bought a pinkie and a fuzzy.  He gets the pinky tonight.  Assuming he'll eat these things, I may just give him a mouse once or twice a week to help clean his teeth (I'm trying not to think about this so I don't get weirded out).  He has gingivitis, though the vet said he didn't need a cleaning.   :-\
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on September 15, 2011, 09:10:10 PM


Meanwhile, I caved and bought a pinkie and a fuzzy.  He gets the pinky tonight.  Assuming he'll eat these things, I may just give him a mouse once or twice a week to help clean his teeth (I'm trying not to think about this so I don't get weirded out). 

Keep us posted!  Although, I could barf...  you are awesome.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on September 15, 2011, 09:23:28 PM
I, too, am beginning to suffer pangs of doubt over the c.e.t. ingredients.  But any of the products that are effective have bad things in them.  I am still using the c.e.t. on two of my cats, but my senior boy with liver disease and The Kitten are no longer getting it on their teeth.  The Boy had a flare up of his liver disorder after being in remission for over a year. It might not be the sorbitol in the c.e.t. but then again, maybe it is.  The kitten had an issue with diarrhea, and I read on the IBD website that sorbitol can cause these issues.  Her whole digestive/intestinal problem has been pretty much solved now, but when I started her back on the c.e.t. the diarrhea came back.

So I saw mention of this other stuff, http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/teddys_pride_oral_probiotic.html and then there's this stuff, but I am not sure if they are the same thing or not:http://www.oragenics.com/probiotics/consumer-products/evora-pet
These two products use a "special kind" of probitoics but it says the stuff works by the ingredients turning into peroxide in the cat's mouth?  I don't want my cats swallowing peroxide either.

Biotene, http://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/view/biotene-veterinarian-enzymatic-oral, also contains undesirable things, including sorbitol.  (I could not find a manufacturer's website for Biotene, the link is to a Vet-IPPS pet supple store.)

For now, after having a talk with my vet I've decided to get a rubber tipped finger brush and just rub their teeth with that every night, no more pastes of any kind. I asked about gauze, but she recommended the rubber finger tip pet toothbrush instead, saying that while gauze would be good on the teeth, it is too abrasive for the gums.

No more stuff in the mouth that may be toxic to them.

Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on September 16, 2011, 01:31:32 PM
Update:  It took some encouraging, but he ATE THE PINKIE!  (I just kept trying not to look at it.  :o)

Tonight, we try the fuzzy.  Cross your paws!
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: KatieAndMe on September 16, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
I may wish I hadn't asked but... what is a pinky and a fuzzy? I assume one is a feeder mouse?? I'd like to know more about this and is it okay to give to a house cat that doesn't normally eat raw food? Katie doesn't chew anything, probably because when I got her she had bad gingivitis but now that it's much better I'd like to encourage her to chew or gnaw or whatever you call it. I've been using the c.e.t. on her and so far so good.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on September 16, 2011, 02:49:22 PM
A pinkie is a baby mouse (so young that there's no fur on it yet).  I tried not to look but it was very tiny, smaller than most of the chicken hearts I've given Pookie as a snack.

A fuzzy is still a baby mouse, but a little bigger and with fuzz on it.  Assuming I can get Pookie to eat it, then next step will be a full-size feeder mouse.

The whole time it was thawing I just kept muttering, "This is cat food . . . this is cat food . . . "   :o :)
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: FurMonster Mom on September 16, 2011, 05:39:50 PM
Pinkies and Fuzzys are also defined by age... a pinkie is 3 days or less. 
We've been doing the occasional pinkie with quite a bit of success. 
Being less developed, pinkies are a little low for nutritive value, but they are a good starter on the road to whole prey.  I'll probably move up to fuzzys next.

On the subject of cleaning, I came across this "dental solution" on  Dr. Basko's Blog: (http://www.drbasko.com/site/blog/)

Quote
III. Dr. B’s Teeth and Gum Cleaning Solution
Mix the following together and keep in a small glass jar, and use to apply to teeth and gums. This mixture works well for gum disease, and softens the plaque over time, while also controlling the risk of bacteria and gum disease. (Do not add this mixture to water bowls for ingestion).

    2 oz Hydrogen peroxide (3%)
    2 oz Aloe Vera juice

If your pet suffers from bad breath, add one of the following to the above mixture:

    Baking soda (one tablespoon)
    Liquid chlorophyll (1 teaspoon)

Application: Apply to teeth and gums, especially the upper molars to control plaque. Use a gauze sponge and soak in the mixed solution, then briskly rub onto stained teeth or plaque. Do this several times a week, and more often if your pet has a lot of plaque build-up. On small dogs and cats, use a Q-tip dipped in the solution, then apply to the gums, teeth, and plaque.

After applying the solution every few days to the gums, teeth, and plaque for 2 -3 weeks, you’ll be able to then scrape the plaque right off the affected teeth, using your fingernails, a soft towel, or even a Q-tip.

I'm giving it a try.... wish me luck!   :D
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on September 16, 2011, 05:59:37 PM
I guess my concern with the hydrogen peroxide is that's what I used to induce vomiting when Pookie ate some string, so my fear would be that if he ingests some of it, it might make him queasy.  Or is that what the aloe vera juice is for?   :-\

I had tried using baking soda and water but had heard that it can wear away the enamel from the teeth, so I stopped that, too.   I just don't know . . . :-\

Good luck, and thanks for the clarification on pinkies and fuzzies!
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: FurMonster Mom on September 16, 2011, 06:25:51 PM
I guess my concern with the hydrogen peroxide is that's what I used to induce vomiting when Pookie ate some string...

I understand.  We did the same thing when Babee got into some chocolates.

BUT

First, I'm guessing the amount of HP you used was quite a bit more than a dab on a Q-tip or bit of cloth.   ;)
And second, you probably used the HP at full strength; whereas the Aloe juice cuts the concentration in half.

I'm guessing that the Aloe juice is indeed to help with any upset tummy, as well as to provide some healing to sore gums.

.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on September 18, 2011, 08:32:15 AM
Thanks, FurMonster Mom.   :-* I must sound so paranoid . . .

Just an update:  Pookie ate the fuzzy!  So there may be full-grown feeder mice in his future . . . if I can bring myself to do it.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on September 18, 2011, 09:35:53 AM
Aloe is on every toxic to cats plants list I have ever read.   I would not use that in my cats' mouths.  The probiotic dental care products I listed earlier in this thread apparently turn to hydrogen peroxide in the mouth. But still, it does not sound safe to me.  peroxide is not meant to be ingested.

None of the solutions other than raw or prey feeding sound safe to me. I'm wondering about using chicken gizzards a few times a week (if they will eat them) Anyone have any opinions on that?

I was so happy with the results of the c.e.t. and their teeth, but now that I've got that bug in my head about the sorbitol I just don't want to use it any more.  After all, all these dental products and solutions are relatively new, know one knows what the long term affects may be.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on September 18, 2011, 09:42:25 AM
By the way, regarding feeding pinkies and fuzzies.  What about the parasites?  I realize these frozen 'treats :)' are bred purposely for feeding, but don't all rodents contain parasites?  I do not like the idea of having to deworm my cats every three months.

I worry about that with all raw feeding, come to think of it, and have never seen the issue addressed.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: FurMonster Mom on September 18, 2011, 10:41:20 AM
Aloe is on every toxic to cats plants list I have ever read.   I would not use that in my cats' mouths.
 
The toxin aloin is in the outer skin of the leaf, it is not in the middle juicy part.  When cats chew on the plant, they are getting the aloin from the outer skin.  Aloin is also toxic to humans, and is always removed from commercially sold juice.

Quote
peroxide is not meant to be ingested.
  Peroxide can be safely ingested in small, diluted quantities.
Quote
None of the solutions other than raw or prey feeding sound safe to me. I'm wondering about using chicken gizzards a few times a week (if they will eat them) Anyone have any opinions on that?
  I do feed bones and gizzards on a fairly regular basis.  But I have a 14 year old gal who is missing some teeth (from before our raw regimen), so she has some difficulty chewing.  I'd like to salvage the teeth that she does have left.  Also, I've noticed some of the other cats favor chewing on one side, so the other side will inadvertently acquire tartar buildup.

By the way, regarding feeding pinkies and fuzzies.  What about the parasites?  I realize these frozen 'treats :)' are bred purposely for feeding, but don't all rodents contain parasites?  I do not like the idea of having to deworm my cats every three months.

I worry about that with all raw feeding, come to think of it, and have never seen the issue addressed.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on September 18, 2011, 12:02:25 PM
Thanks for your replies FMM. 

Quote
The toxin aloin is in the outer skin of the leaf, it is not in the middle juicy part.  When cats chew on the plant, they are getting the aloin from the outer skin.  Aloin is also toxic to humans, and is always removed from commercially sold juice.

But you have to trust to whoever is processing the aloe, that they are not using the toxic part.

Quote
Peroxide can be safely ingested in small, diluted quantities.

Yes but, supposedly so can all these other things that are added, sorbital, xylitol, alcohol?  And we don't know how these small quantities are being processed through the cats' bodies. Through the liver?   the kidneys?  Or perhaps not processed and eliminated at all, but left there to build up over time until all heck breaks loose? Not to mention the possibility of the peroxide causing stomach upset. Cats can't tell us if their stomach hurts and will hide any symptoms, we all know that.

Quote
I do feed bones and gizzards on a fairly regular basis.  But I have a 14 year old gal who is missing some teeth (from before our raw regimen), so she has some difficulty chewing.  I'd like to salvage the teeth that she does have left.  Also, I've noticed some of the other cats favor chewing on one side, so the other side will inadvertently acquire tartar buildup.


My senior boy has very few teeth as he is prone to resorptive lesions (FORL) which is a terribly painful dental condition, removal of the affected teeth being the only cure. Frankly, I would not be sorry to see them all gone, it would be one less thing for me to worry about with him. (my vet gets upset when I say that) I have an FLUTD girl whose phosphorous and calcium intake has to be controlled, adding bone to her diet could cause all sorts of problems, that's why I wondered about the gizzard, that doesn't have bone, or does it?


   
Quote
Pinkys are 3-4 days old or less, so they really haven't had a chance to acquire parasites unless they are passed from their mother.  Fuzzys are 5-13 days old, so I'd think the same logic applies.
    Reputable mouse breeders are usually very careful about the health of their stock.  They have to be, or they'd be outta business in a hurry, reptiles (their primary customers) are just as sensitive to what they ingest as cats are.
    The question of parasites comes up all the time.  The only thing I can say is, if you're afraid of feeding human grade meats to your cats, then you should be terrified to eat it yourself (rare steak, anyone?)
    Freezing kills almost all parasites, but does not necessarily kill bacteria; which is why it's important to rinse meats thoroughly and not use ground meat unless you're grinding it yourself and freezing it right away.

I don't eat any meat rare, ever.  Chicken or beef, it is  all cooked to death.:)

 With cats, so I understand, bacteria is not that big of an issue due to their short digestive tract (the bacteria is a hazard to the humans, rather, who should be taking extreme sanitary measures not just with the raw food but the litter box clean up).  But I can't get past the parasite issue.

 My senior cat who has a seizure disorder cannot take deworming medicines, he had an extreme reaction last summer when I had to treat everyone due to the possibility of the new kitten passing on some roundworms to the rest of them. At the time the aspca poison control center, and the emergency vet we saw,  said they found a reference to a contraindication between the medicines in the drontal and phenobarbital that could cause such a reaction.  The makers of drontal deny there is any such contraindication, so who knows what happened.  But I cannot risk him needing a dewormer ever again as that was a terrifying experience.

The vet does not think it is the sorbital in the c.e.t. that caused the most recent flare up of his liver illness, nor does she think it is the sorbital/c.e.t. that caused the kitten's diarrhea.   I do think the c.e.t. is related to both cases and will no longer use it for those two cats, and have cut back greatly on how often I am doing the other two, though I can't deny the c.e.t. has done a wonderful job keeping their teeth tartar free and their breath fresh and sweet.But at what future cost?

I am very frustrated about this issue now.  I remember kind of fondly the days that I didn't think about and worry about things like what was in their canned food and whether they needed home dental care, it was a more peaceful time. :)

However I AM Aware now, and there is no turning back to those innocent, more simple, days.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on September 18, 2011, 03:22:59 PM
When Pookie's sister was at the holistic vet over a year ago, the vet told me to give her aloe juice and I said the same thing:  that aloe is toxic to cats.  I can't remember exactly what she said, but I think she said only in large amounts.  I did finally give it to his sister (I was desperate), mixing it in her wet food, and as far as I could tell it didn't seem to bother her.  I don't know if there are cumulative effects, though.

Gizzards are the throat muscles of the chicken or turkey and don't contain any bone.  They're very tough so they're a good workout for the jaws.  I do give Pookie gizzards a couple of times a week, but as FMM said, I've noticed he tends to "chew" them using one side of his mouth.  He has gingivitis on the side that he doesn't use as much.

When he went in for his annual check-up, I did give the vet a stool sample and mentioned that my Mighty Hunter had caught a mouse in my basement and eaten it before I could get it away from him.  Maybe I just got lucky, but the fecal came back negative for parasites.  (whew!)  I'm not too worried about the feeder mice having parasites because they are frozen, and as FMM said, they're bred for this purpose so they should be safe.  Unfortunately, nothing is ever 100% safe:  we feed canned and hope that the company we're buying from will be honest and responsible.  So there are no guarantees.  As for the days of being blissfully ignorant . . . I hear ya loud and clear, MC.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on September 19, 2011, 04:16:50 PM
I was on Dr. Hofve's site to see if she had any suggestions on dental products for kitties.  She mentions the C.E.T. Forte Chews do a good job.  I did a quick search for the ingredients and found this:

C.E.T. Oral Hygiene Chews for Cats:
Guaranteed Analysis Amount
Crude Protein (min.) 40.0%
Crude Fat (min.) 40.0%
Crude Fiber (max.) 0.5%
Moisture (max.) 5.0%
Other Ingredients (per chew):
Freeze-dried fish, antioxidants (containing tocopherols, ascorbic acid, natural flavor and citric acid), glucose oxidase (Aspergillus niger), dried whey protein concentrate.

Sigh . . . the search continues . . .
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on September 20, 2011, 11:50:29 AM

Sigh . . . the search continues . . .


If you find anything...let us know!  Goooood luck!  I don't think there is anything, manufactured for pets, that doesn't have some sort of ingredient issue.   bangshead
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on September 24, 2011, 10:50:47 AM
I did a quick search on "natural ways to clean a cat's teeth" and found this:   http://www.ehow.com/way_5270198_natural-remedies-clean-cats-teeth.html

Has anyone ever heard of sangre de drago?  Any idea if it's safe for kitties?  I did some quick searches and didn't find much, though what I did find made it seem safe and effective.  However, one search I did mentioned that it shouldn't be used in people with leukemia as it seems to make the disease worse.   :o  I have no idea how accurate that is.  The few things I saw, including the link posted above, kept saying to use it once a month (after the initial period of using it for a week to 10 days).  If anyone can find anything on sangre de drago (or sangre de grado) and the safety/efficacy of using it on dogs and cats for teeth issues, please share.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on September 24, 2011, 04:22:10 PM
I found this:

Quote
Sangre de Grado appears to be safe for most people. When applied to the skin, Sangre de Grado can cause pain, burning, and scarring.

Not something I would want to put into my cat's mouth.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on May 11, 2014, 04:52:16 PM
Question to FMM:  Are you still using that homemade dental cleanser with the aloe and hydrogen peroxide, and if so, did it work?

I just discovered that one of Pookie's bottom fangs is missing.   :'(  I feel so bad . . . I should have been brushing his teeth . . . :(
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on May 13, 2014, 01:43:27 PM
We all should be brushing our cats teeth.  Sooooo much easier said than done! 
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on May 13, 2014, 02:03:38 PM
I called the acupuncture vet (I'm still on the waitlist) today to get information on who they send their patients to for dentals.  The person I'd originally talked to had said those places are ok with doing dentals on pets that weren't current on vaccinations.  I wasn't sure if this vet had to see Pookie or give a referral, so I wanted to find out.

Yes, she would have to give a referral, and since Pookie isn't currently a patient, by law she can't do that.  I could call these places and ask if they'd take him.  I'm assuming he needs a dental, since he lost a tooth.  When I'd chatted with the person on the original call and mentioned his lip issue, she wondered if it was due to his teeth.  So that adds to my assumption.

I did ask the lady today if there was something the acupuncture vet recommended to clean his teeth.  This is the product she had:  Maxi-Guard oral gel.  Here are the ingredients:

Maxi Guard Oral Gel an oral cleansing gel that cleanses and freshens with or without brushing. Active Ingredient(s): Deionized water, zinc gluconate, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), methylcellulose, taurine, methylparaben, propylparaben, F.D.&C. blue no. 1. May also contain zinc sulfate

*sigh*  I don't think I'm comfortable with anything that has methylcellulose, unless it's something different than what I think it is.  Thoughts?

On a side note:  if he does need a dental, I find it interesting that he spent the first 5+ years of his life on a dry/canned diet and never needed one, but may need one when he's not getting ANY dry, and gets a combination canned/raw (including chicken tenders, hearts and cut up gizzards [to prevent horking]) diet now.  Go figure.   :-\
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on May 13, 2014, 02:35:42 PM
From listening to others (and my own previous experience)...I don't think the average vet is big on dentals, unless there is something screaming obvious going on.  I think many vets go by age also.  Don't quote me though.

Has Pookie ever had a dental cleaning or dental x-rays?  I ask because none of ours ever "needed" dental work or cleaning...until recently.  Like humans, I think a dental should be done...whether it looks like they need one or not. 
My vet (and some online vets) recommend once a year.  It makes sense, but I'm not sure if I will be on board with that timeline though.

Kibble does do a LOT of damage to teeth.  Canned and raw can't undo the damage.

From what Dr. Pierson, and other vets I trust, have said...the brushing is the most important.  Not so much the "toothpaste." 

I would also assume Pookie needs to be seen, since losing a tooth.






Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on May 13, 2014, 04:08:02 PM
I don't brush.  I'm too afraid to do damage to their gums or enamel.  I can't find a brush I would be comfortable using, and my vet warned against gauze as too abrasive.  I don't like ANY of the for pets pastes or additives.  They all have bad things in them.

I think dental health is largely genetic in cats, of course I think that it makes me feel better to think that, but look at Mazy, kibble diet for 6 years, and her teeth are great.  The vet picked some tartar off when she had her ears done (under anesthesia)  I don't believe for one tiny second that the kibble kept her teeth healthy.  I think she was born with good teeth.

Tolly Angel was on a canned diet all his life, and I used the c.e.t on him at least once a week for many years.  yet he had FORL and had to have dentals almost yearly after about age 5, usually with extractions.

Ootay Angel did not have her first dental until she was 17 1/2 years old.

Bibbs Angel needed her first when she was 8, and then had one every two years after that.

Queen Eva (just past 3 at last check up) and Jennie (approx. 8 1/2 at last check up) both have good strong teeth with no tartar yet.

My vet is not pushy on dentals, she checks teeth very carefully, will show me any problems she might see, but is not in a hurry to recommend dentals, though she does wish I would brush with something. It's just something I am not going to worry about, there are too many other things!
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on May 13, 2014, 04:17:40 PM
No, Pookie's never had dental x-rays or a cleaning.  His teeth, at least according to the various vets he saw over the years, never saw a problem, except for the last one who said he had some gingivitis but he didn't need a cleaning.  Idiot that I am, I believed him because Pookie had always had good teeth.  Now I'm wondering . . .  :(

His sister (littermate), on the other hand, had 4 teeth removed when she was 2 years old.   :o  And I remember thinking to myself, "How could she need to have 4 removed when she's getting the dry?"  Then I thought, "Wow, how many would she have lost if she wasn't getting the dry to clean her teeth?"   :-[ Doh1 bangshead bangshead bangshead bangshead

I was thinking of just using my finger as a "brush."  It may not be great, but I would think it's better than nothing, and it would DEFINITELY be easier to get in his mouth.  I'm just trying to figure out what kind of "toothpaste" or cleanser to put on it.  I would think some sort of product would be more effective than just my finger, wouldn't it?   :-\  Or would my finger be "good enough?"
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on May 13, 2014, 05:28:22 PM
To be CLEAR, I am not arguing with either of you.  The following is what I THINK I know and/or believe.  ;) 

A vet isn't going to know the exact condition of a cat's teeth, without doing a thorough check.  My opinion comes from... all our cats' teeth were fine, until recent dentals.  Some still have fine teeth.  Others... gum disease, tooth resorption, missing teeth, etc.  To ME, all that didn't happen over night. 

I also don't believe most vets place dental care very high up on the list.  That is maybe why most cats have teeth that are fine.  ?? 

I've read that a minimum of brushing 4x a week is needed, to make any kind of difference. 

I do believe genetics also play a role in the health of a cat's teeth.

If I was the perfect cat mom (by my own standards)... I would brush their teeth daily, with a soft pet tooth brush...and no "toothpaste." 

Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on May 13, 2014, 06:12:08 PM
Pookie: when I used the c.e.t I used my finer to rub it on their teeth (the outside edges) and gums, following my vet's advice.

Lola: I know you aren't arguing.  We're all in this together, trying to sort it out.  HeadButt
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on May 14, 2014, 08:42:33 AM
Lola: I know you aren't arguing.  We're all in this together, trying to sort it out.  HeadButt

Exactly.

I would prefer Pookie not lose anymore teeth if I can help it.  And it shouldn't surprise me (but it does) that dental health wouldn't be high on a vet's list.   >:(  I did read something last night, which was a "statement of the obvious" but I hadn't really thought about it, that most of what he's eating is "soft" food (canned), including the raw RadCat and Primal.  Other than the chicken hearts (which he barely gnaws on), the gizzards (which I have to cut up or he might get blocked and regurgitate) and the tenders (at least those he gnaws on), there's nothing to really "clean" off his teeth.  I just haven't worked up the nerve to give him bones.   :-[ :(

Gotta run, but I'll post more later.  Thanks, everyone!   :-* HeadButt
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on May 14, 2014, 10:27:42 AM
Since cats dont chew their food, where does the cleaning enter the picture?  Mine dont gnaw.  They tear the big chunks up into smaller pieces and swallow.  Raw is the best choice for sure, but I ASSuME the biggest benefit is the fact that it is a natural diet. 

Putting aside all the other kibble causing diseases...it is full of MAJOR carpy ingredients, that stick to the teeth! The ingredients, alone, are a recipe for dental disaster. 

Canned isnt natural and it is commercially made, but it is still a HUGE step above kibble. Not just for dental health... overall health. 

PS i dont want to see any of my cats lose their teeth either.  However, Lucy is missing 6 teeth.....back teeth.  Upper and lower, right and left sides.  You would never know it.  She doesnt hesitate, when she rips into raw chunks. 
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on May 14, 2014, 11:31:19 AM
Since cats dont chew their food, where does the cleaning enter the picture?  Mine dont gnaw.  They tear the big chunks up into smaller pieces and swallow.

I'm thinking that's where at least some of the cleaning happens.  And I would think the REAL cleaning happens when they eat/break up raw bones.

Would age also be a factor, at least to some extent?  I wouldn't think an older barn cat, for example, would be more likely to lose it's teeth if it's eating prey compared to a younger barn cat, but I'm speculating here.  So I'm not sure age would play a role, but . . .  :-\
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Pookie on May 14, 2014, 01:00:24 PM
Just for fits and giggles, I thought I'd visit Dr. Hofve's site to see if she had any suggestions:  http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/dental-care-for-cats/

She thinks there's a large genetic component, too.   :(
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on May 15, 2014, 03:14:31 AM
I think there are a lot of factors... same as with humans. 

What they eat.
Care.
Age.
Genetics. 
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on May 15, 2014, 04:42:48 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Lola on May 16, 2014, 01:17:25 AM
I wanted to mention some signs of feline dental issues. 
Eating from the side of his/her mouth. 
Chattering...when not looking out the window at birds. 
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: FurMonster Mom on May 18, 2014, 01:03:12 AM
Question to FMM:  Are you still using that homemade dental cleanser with the aloe and hydrogen peroxide, and if so, did it work?

sigh... no.  Not brushing at all anymore. 
For the most part, everyone's teeth are in pretty good condition.  The exception is Belle and her FORLs.  I asked my vet if there was any correlation between diet and FORLs, and she said "they" really haven't found the cause.  It is not related to calcium or other vitamin deficiency.  The closest guess they have at this point is "genetics".  I'm not crazy about that answer, personally... but without anything else to go on...   :-\

... my vet warned against gauze as too abrasive. 

This seems odd to me, considering that a cat who subsists on a natural prey diet certainly chews on things much harder than gauze.   ::) 
Also, chewing on bones is supposed to be one of the dental benefits of a raw diet.   ;)
Title: Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
Post by: Middle Child on May 18, 2014, 06:47:47 AM
Meat and bones aren't anything like gauze.  Gauze is abrasive, I agree with my vet. :)