Author Topic: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)  (Read 22105 times)

Offline Pookie

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2012, 04:39:06 PM »
Okay, thank you!  But she's off the pepcid now, so mal-absorption of vitamin B-12 should no longer be an issue, right? I just don't want her to have to have anything she doesn't really need, such as the binders and other fillers that come with vitamin tablets.  Also, I read in, I think it was the link you posted in the Vitamin B-12 thread, that giving this vitamin orally, for a cat who is deficient because of adsorption problems isn't an effective way of rectifying the problem, that injections are much preferable.

I haven't spoken to my vet in a couple weeks, but I don't know if she'd be willing to prescribe B-12 injections (I would do them myself) without an exam/bloodwork, which my girl isn't due for until June. (Last check up was in December)  Any other cat, I wouldn't hesitate, but this one, I really try to keep her vet visits to twice a year.

Well, we'll see how it goes now that she is off the pepcid.  I think it's just taking this long for her poor little body to recover from all the years on the corn laden c/d kibble.

Hi MC,

I understand the concern about binders and fillers in supplements.  The one I give Pookie only has 2 or 3 ingredients in it, so I’m more comfortable using it.  It’s also a very small pill so he's not getting a lot of those other ingredients.

I guess I don’t think of crystals as being a GI issue the way IBD is, so I would think if it’s mixed in her food she’d get something out of it, but I could be wrong.  I started Pookie on it because I noticed him developing similar symptoms that his sister had (who I think was B12 deficient), and after losing her, I couldn’t bear to lose him.  And I suspected that years of dry feeding may have depleted his B12 levels (they didn’t get much canned then).  I figured it couldn’t hurt to try, and I did notice his symptoms getting much better, so I still mix it in his food every day.

It’s entirely up to you whether you want to add it to her food or not.  You have to do what makes you comfortable.  I just wanted to share as much info as possible based on my experience.

I’m so glad she’s doing better!  Good job, Mommy!
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« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 04:41:40 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Lola

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2012, 09:48:17 PM »
Welcome to the "Journal Club," Lola!   :D  I've had one for years, too.  It was the only way I could figure out what allergies Pookie and his sister had (before I stopped dry feeding).  Even though he's much better now, I still do it. Ya never know . . .

Soooo true!  With all the constant recalls, ingredient changes, etc.  *sigh*

Sorry about the hijack.   :D

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Offline Amber

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2012, 10:54:39 PM »
I would just like to note that since she is on a food that is highly digestible with little filler, she is going to have bowel movements much less frequently than before. Are you sure that she is having actual constipation and not just absorbing her food better?

Offline Mo

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2012, 11:01:11 PM »
I'm glad she is doing so much better!!!

BTW, some of mine burp as well funny2 

Offline Middle Child

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2012, 07:02:35 AM »
Hi MC,

<brevity snip>

I guess I don’t think of crystals as being a GI issue the way IBD is, so I would think if it’s mixed in her food she’d get something out of it, but I could be wrong. 

Thank Pookie, it's not the struvite I am thinking of as her GI issue but the regurgitation.


I would just like to note that since she is on a food that is highly digestible with little filler, she is going to have bowel movements much less frequently than before. Are you sure that she is having actual constipation and not just absorbing her food better?

Thanks Amber,  I did not think of that.  It could be, but, on the other hand when she does have a bowel movement it is too big. Having lived with a megacolon cat before, I do not want to have to deal with that again.

Offline Pookie

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2012, 12:18:52 PM »
Thank Pookie, it's not the struvite I am thinking of as her GI issue but the regurgitation.

Ah, gotcha.  I wasn't thinking of that, sorry.   :-[

Here's a suggestion just in case you decide to add the B12 to her food (or for anyone else who may be considering the same):  depending on how many meals she gets (Pookie gets 4:  2 in the morning, 2 in the evening), add a little to one meal and the rest to another meal.  Pookie gets his in the morning, so I add some probiotic and B12 to his "1st breakfast" and the rest to his "2nd breakfast."  That way, if he horks up one meal, he'll get some in the other.  And if he keeps both meals down, even better.   ;D

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Offline Middle Child

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2012, 12:25:38 PM »
I forgot to mention we had a slight set back yesterday. Out of the blue, she started to regurgitate her mid-day meal, even before she had finished eating it.  Without thinking I grabbed her and stopped it, by kneeling on the floor and holding her upright with her front paws draped over my arm, stroking her throat and chest and speaking softly to her. In retrospect this was probably a very dangerous thing to do, I don't know what possessed me to try it. I could have caused her to aspirate!  Doh1

Anyway, she did keep it down.  But...right before I was about the leave the house she jumped down into a hunch like she was going to try again (this was about 45 minutes later).  She brought up a burp, but looked so uncomfortable I decided to give her a pepcid dose (1/4 10 mg tablet). The pepcid did the job, made her more comfortable and there have been no more problems.

I am so depressed about discovering By Nature has changed the formula of their Organic Turkey&Chicken to contain carrageenan I don't know what to do with myself. I have about 2 months of the old formula left.  THEN, what am I going to feed this girl?

Offline Pookie

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2012, 01:31:19 PM »
 grouphug   grouphug  grouphug

I'm so sorry.  I know raw's not an option, but is home-cooked?  That way you could control the ingredients in her food?

I just saw your post in another thread that she won't eat people food.   :'( 

 grouphug grouphug grouphug
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 01:51:55 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2012, 07:50:35 AM »
Thank you Pookie.  I am TRYING to not freak out, until I hear from "my" contact at By Nature.  She had a tummy ache again yesterday and I had to give her some pepcid, but only a 1/8 tablet.

Her urine has gone a bit alkaline though, so I am going to have to do something about that.  Vitamin c tablets? Gosh I hate having to tweak her with all these supplements. I wonder if she would eat a home cooked diet, if it didn't resemble people food, at least. I don't know, I am just too frightened to do that, what if I mess her up even worse?


Offline Pookie

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2012, 04:50:15 PM »
This is just my  2cents -- I am NOT trying to pressure you in any way.  These are just my thoughts for what they're worth:

1.  You know how to research.  You have done TONS of it in getting her this far.  So I think if you research home-cooked diets, and find some really good recipes, you'll be okay.  You already have a good idea of what to avoid (garlic, spinach, etc.).  Perhaps Dr. Hofve has some recipes on her site, or can recommend some (she's very responsive).  Or you could try one of the other good sites/authors like catnutrition.com or Dr. Pierson for suggestions.  If you still feel uncomfortable with the idea, then you don't do it.  It never hurts to research to see what the options are.

2.  You were able to transition her from the c/d kibble to the wet.  It took time, but you did it.  In your opinion, do you think if you tried to verrrry sloooowly mix in a little bit of home-cooked into her wet, that she might eventually eat it and get used to it?

3.   grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 04:58:40 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2012, 07:14:15 PM »
Thank you for your never ending support Pookie. Transitioning her off kibble wasn't really that difficult, she has always preferred canned food (with the exception of the c/d canned, of course).  Finding a food that didn't make her sick, either with vomiting or aggravating the struvite issue, was the real challenge.

I am too afraid, because of her struvite issues, to make her food.  I would have no way of knowing if she was getting too much phosphurous or magnesium, for example. I don't trust recipes for home made food any more than I trust the PFI. There's no pleasing me, is there?  :-[

However you give very good advice and I am not dismissing it.  I WILL start reading more about homemade cat food (cooked/supplemented).  Maybe, the more I read, the more confident I will feel about trying it.  For ALL of them.

I love my vet but lets face it, she is not a nutrition expert.  She is an excellent diagnostician, and knows a ton about senior care, and specific diseases. She does beautiful dental work, and I feel my cats are as safe as they can possibly be under general anesthesia, with her. But when it comes to feline nutrition, what she knows, she's learned from me. <sigh>

 I am trying not to borrow trouble, until I hear back from my By Nature CSR contact.  Maybe the food I am feeding IS the new formula, and the web site hasn't been updated.  I don't remember if I every actually read the ingredients list on the website for the Organic, when I first researched By Nature I wasn't planning on feeding the organic at all, so when I first picked some up it was at the feed store, where I went by the ingredients listed on the label.  THEN I bought a bunch of cases of it.

But with all the encouragement I am getting here, I will work harder at being more open to home cooking for them.

PS catinfo.org and catnutrition.org have only raw food recipes. This is just not something I am prepared to do.  I may never get there, or maybe I will, but raw is not happening now. I do have an older copy of The Natural Cat by Anita Frazier.  But it is outdated (1990), so I don't trust her recipes either.

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2012, 08:15:27 PM »
If anyone can get to the bottom of this, MC, you can.  


Just a thought, perhaps Ms Frazier's book contains info about cat nutrition that can never "go in or out of style"?  
Have you ever seen Dr Elizabeth Hodgkins' book, Your Cat?   Would imagine that the info contained in both their books would be "ageless" as they understand feline physiology and cats, themselves,  haven't changed....so these ladies' recipes would most likely be fit for cats whether 30 years ago; 5 years ago, or 20 years in the future  :)

Rooting for you   CatPurr grouphug grouphug
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 08:19:10 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline Pookie

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2012, 12:51:34 PM »
I was thinking that, even though they advocate raw feeding, perhaps they could also provide some home-cooked recipes or direct you to some, esp. if you explain that raw just isn't an option at this time.  It couldn't hurt to ask.

If I remember Ms. Frazier's book (and I may be confusing it with another author like Kymythy Shultz), I think she includes garlic in her recipes.   :o  But I may be wrong.  I'm pretty sure Dr. Pitcairn's recipes all include grain of some kind (which I don't understand, esp. since he's a holistic vet).  This may very well make you even more worried, and I don't blame you, hence the suggestion to contact Dr. Pierson, Dr. Hofve or catnutrition (I'm blanking on her name right now).

 grouphug grouphug grouphug
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Offline Mo

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2012, 05:46:34 PM »
Okay, I know you don't want to do raw, but I'm just throwing this out there anyway.  http://www.felineinstincts.com/ is a powder that you add to raw meat - I know some people that use it.  It is easy, just follow the instructions on their site.  Ithink all you do is mix it with ground meat and it makes it a balanced meal.

http://itchmoforums.com/making-your-own-pet-food-and-home-remedies/cato-continues-kaffes-work-t6701.0.html has several recipes for home cooking. 


Offline Middle Child

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Re: It just keeps getting better (getting off the c/d saga continued)
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2012, 07:39:02 PM »
Thank you both so much for your support and help.  Too tired tonight to sort through it all, but I will, I will.  Got to keep this girl healthy, she's doing so well now.

  grouphug grouphug


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