Author Topic: Is This Stuff True?  (Read 3890 times)

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2014, 09:14:34 PM »
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In our practice, recovery from surgery is very rapid, with the outcome leading to a stronger bond between pet and pet owner, which ultimately leads to better overall care.

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That is a statement regarding DEclawing.  Do you, in your honest opinion, think that is true? Half-true?  A "maybe"?     Is whatever MS said, as her opinion, worse than that?

I in no way think that's even minutely true. If they mean that now the owner won't be angry as hell at the cat for tearing up their precious furniture (Instead of buying them some scratching posts and building a kitty arena to help provide for their needs and keep their minds happy.), then they should say that the bond is better because now the owner doesn't resent the cat since the cat can no longer do what God intended it to do.

Sadly it seems, most of the time, pet care falls into what the human wants, what is most convenient, instead of what the pet needs. Too many people won't do what we do here. We read and read, then read some more. Then we think and compare. Then we think again. After all that, if we still can't get to an end point, we go back and start searching for even more to start reading again. We are NOT the norm of today's society. The majority of today's society has an allergy to educational thought. After all, it's so much easier to pay a vet to do their thinking for them.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 09:17:09 PM by DeeDee »
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2014, 09:23:51 PM »
Yes, and when the cat begins avoiding the litter box or biting, or never moves all day long because of pain pain and more pain, what happens to that "bond"?  Out the door..with the cat.

You guys were talking about Facebook on another thread, I have an account but don't use it much, but what comes to my account is feeds from several anti declaw sites.  The number of cats with bone fragments and regrowth is staggering.  And these are only the cats who have been dumped at the shelters reporting the repair surgeries (when they can raise enough money to do it).  Who knows how many are left mouldering in homes, suffering all their lives.

And that's just the bone fragments and regrowth (which can protrude though the pad, so the cat has to WALK on that bare bone.  And scratch in cat litter. can you imagine the agony?)

Let's not forget the pain they suffer in their backs and legs since they can't ever stretch properly ever again. The early arthritis.  The diabetes.  It's all so evil I can hardly bear to think of it sometimes.

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2014, 10:11:52 PM »
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I in no way think that's even minutely true.  If they mean that now the owner won't be angry as hell ...

Of course you don't.  thumbsup1   The "question" was response to this:

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You can demand all day long. We've got freedom of speech, and people are allowed to put up websites that "state their personal opinion" all day long. So, in their opinions, they're giving out information that they believe in, and there's nothing to be corrected.


#1 
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The majority of today's society has an allergy to educational thought.
thumbsup1  And everybody in a position to influence them, who can profit, knows this. 

#2 
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After all, it's so much easier to pay a vet to do their thinking for them.
Yes, and who REALLY pays?  The humans don't suffer, or feel the pain.  They only get hit in the pocketbook, -- their "penalty" for #1,  and oblivious to it all the whole time.

 
#3 
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Sadly it seems, most of the time, pet care falls into what the human wants, what is most convenient, instead of what the pet needs.
 

All of the above, ( I quoted you out of order on purpose to end with these concerns ):

Also add in the fact that this information is not available to *mainstream* Joe Q Public unless he's digging on the Internet like we do.

 He would, of course need a reason to be that desperate, to question that which is so widely believed, and start googling, wouldn't he?

  THEN he has to sift through soooo much conflicting information; message forum wars, fancy websites with PR & marketing expert input backed by big corporations….blogs, more message forum wars ...more convincing ads.    And why wouldn't he believe his vet knows best, in the first place? 

We might think this statement is absurd, but do the mainstream majority when this is the general (business) philosophy of the only pet-care choices available to them?

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In our practice, recovery from surgery is very rapid, with the outcome leading to a stronger bond between pet and pet owner, which ultimately leads to better overall care.

So this is what most people "in the real world" will believe. Why wouldn't they? It's not presented as just an opinion. It's an official philosophy of the "licensed" facilities near them.

 And just who is going (to try)  to convince them otherwise?  Nobody who should be, that's for sure.  Rescuers and non-profits DO know better, so they educate. But where to go for health care?  How many choices really are there now?  Look at MC's post above.  Declawed cats EVERYwhere as I'm sure it's not limited to the feeds she sees. 
(The same can be said for diet!)

That's the whole point of this thread.  And there's no way to get people to address it with the vengeance reserved for an *UNqualified* Martha Stewart with just an opinion.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 10:19:34 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2014, 10:24:03 PM »
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That's the whole point of this thread.  And there's no way to get people to address it with the vengeance reserved for a Martha Stewart with just an opinion.


I really wish we all had endless money so that we could obtain copies of The Paw Project's documentary to give to every vet that does the surgeries, and shove it in their faces.

Meanwhile, we're up against BS like this from people that DO seem to have endless money to walk the other side of the fence:



WARNING: this is truly shudder-worthy and is done using what looks like the guillotine clippers I use on their nail tips before I use the Dremel on the rest, and super glue maybe?

Yes Dave Weisman lobbyist believes that it's okay to do this:

"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2014, 10:25:30 PM »
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can you imagine the agony?

No, MC.  grouphug     

 People don't realise ANYthing until *THEY* can feel it. 

If they had to endure it, you can BET it would have been outlawed long ago.  But us little Internet people, and the rescues, will just have to keep on, keeping on, praying people stumble upon us because nothing will change (for reasons already beaten into the ground.)

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2014, 10:32:49 PM »
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I really wish we all had endless money so that we could obtain copies of The Paw Project's documentary to give to every vet that does the surgeries, and shove it in their faces.

Even if we did... DeeDee, I've been there and back just with the food issue.  Are you aware of just who calls the shots?   Even if a vet in a multi-facility has their own beliefs (regarding declawing or food), do you think they'd last long if they spoke up against company policy? Against everything they've been taught?  Against  ... just everything?   

Oblivious consumers who won't "believe" internet wackos and health freaks, do you think they'll get together and freak out like they do over an objectionable TV commercial? Or an offensive comment made by some TV or radio guy to get him PROMPTLY off the air? Or to get a cult favorite TV show BACK on the air? 
PEOPLE don't have to endure the pain themselves, so on it goes...

Ain't happening. 

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2014, 10:39:10 PM »
PS I knew someone who made sure the Dean in EVERY University had a copy of Dr. H's "Your Cat" along with heartfelt letters including TONS of research, among other monumental endeavours.
That was over 6 years ago. NOTHING has changed on that end.  Frankly, it's sinking even lower where I am.  MORE people I know SWEAR by things which the mass recalls SHOULD have woken them up about 7 years ago.
I should add: keep mentioning the more Western regions, (especially California).  Things are more advanced there, for whatever reasons.  All we have to do is look at peoples' locations on mass message forums. But in the wrong area, totally screwed.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 10:55:56 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2014, 10:40:52 PM »
PEOPLE don't have to endure the pain themselves, so on it goes...

Ain't happening. 

Maybe we should be asking how they got it done in other countries?
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2014, 10:49:04 PM »
Maybe we should be asking how they got it done in other countries?



Just going by what I've seen posted by participants on forums --  people from countries like Sweden, I think Australia .... they are shocked it's even done at all anywhere.   Hadn't even heard of it. 

Perhaps as Corporate "influences" branched out overseas, that's when bans became official, because the temptation was presented?  (That's what I gather, having read the shock of the Foreign people posting on citydata which is a relocation forum and covers everywhere.) 

Here it would be like putting the spilled gallon of oil back into the jug. Who wants to mess with that when in this country, it appears that TV "celebrities" and what people who haven't been seen in 20 years are posting on facebook are just toooooo important to ignore for one second for such trivial (in comparison) things as pain & discomfort we can't even feel ourselves.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 11:06:38 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2014, 09:17:19 AM »
Will cross-post this its own thread but I think it's best in illustrating the point I'm trying to make, so here it is:


Last Year, 2013:

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(ANIMAL CRUELTY) Apparently getting your pet tattooed and pierced is an actual thing now. It’s a big enough problem that assembly member Linda Rosenthal is working on implementing legislation that would prevent irresponsible guardians from inflicting such reckless pain on their pets. Linda Rosenthal said, “There are hundreds upon hundreds of Youtube videos and websites that show animals that have studs in their ears, tattoos on their backs, and it’s really horrifying…I want to make it a criminal offense.”

As for the temporary dog tattoos, Rosenthal still thinks gluing rhinestones on your pitbull is wrong-headed. “You have to let them have their integrity and dignity. And putting stupid little sparkles on them, I think it looks foolish,” she said.
“People have to understand that animals are separate from human companions. They’re not an extension of them, and you should not do things to your animals that you would do to yourself.
    http://www.globalanimal.org/2013/05/03/tramp-stamps-arent-meant-for-dogs/


   http://www.globalanimal.org/2013/05/03/tramp-stamps-arent-meant-for-dogs/


And then this happened this year, a mere 3 months ago:


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Posted: 03/06/2014 1  Outrage After Brooklyn Tattoo Artist Mistah Metro Inks His Own Dog, Posts Photo

The ASPCA condones the use of tattooing for only identification purposes following spay or neuter surgery.

A tattoo artist in New York was very proud that he had given a tattoo to his dog, but now he’s getting some backlash.
He posted a photo of his dog with its new tattoo to Instagram with the caption “My dog is cooler than yours!”
The dog had her spleen removed and he figured, as long as she was under anesthesia, he might as well give her a tattoo. The tattoo has his wife’s name and a heart.
Online, people were angry and a spokesman for ASPCA denounced it.

... he had to quit his tattoo job because of all the attention.


http://wgntv.com/2014/03/07/internet-flips-out-after-man-posts-photo-of-tattooed-dog/

I don't endorse doing such things to pets, of course, but the dog was under his Vet's care -- under sedation at the time due to an operation --  and this dog's owner career is that of a Tatoo Artist! 

Now:

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Sorry New Yorkers, You Can No Longer Tattoo Your Pets

http://time.com/2901069/new-york-tattoo-pet/


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New York Passes Bill To Outlaw Tattooing Pets

June 19, 2014 3:04 PM ET
  http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/06/19/323687311/new-york-passes-bill-to-outlaw-tattooing-pets?


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Medical marijuana and safer streets may be a wash, but Albany has reacted swiftly to one particular scourge: pets with tattoos & piercings. A bill banning companion animal tattoos and piercings for any reason other than identification or medical purposes passed both houses and now awaits Governor Cuomo's signature.
“Companion animals, such as dogs and cats, will no longer be subject to the selfish whims of their owners, who place vanity above the health and safety of their animals,” the bill's sponsor, Assemblymember Linda Rosenthal said.

http://gothamist.com/2014/06/19/piercing_tattooing_your_pet_will_so.php


« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 09:28:16 AM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2014, 09:31:35 AM »
Is declawing banned there yet?   There have been henious images of decalwed cats, and images of their declawed "Claws" posted all over for how many YEARS now.   Anyone know if any US  cities or states have banned declawing yet?

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2014, 10:20:11 AM »
Meant to include this, from the TIME link:   http://time.com/2901069/new-york-tattoo-pet/

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Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal introduced the animal rights bill in 2011 after she discovered “gothic kittens” with tattoos and piercings for sale online, according to the New York Daily News. The proposal will now head to Governor Andrew Cuomo, who is expected to sign the law.

The bill... was designed to prevent animals from unnecessary body modification, which many believe is a form of animal cruelty. The only exceptions are piercings for medical purposes and tattoos for medical or identification purposes,

2011?!   Does this see the light of day if not for the (March, 2014) Tatoo artist, and people freaking out over him?

Yes there is a case for Instagram & other sites like that helping to expose this stuff. It's the priorities I have the issue with, due to what GETS the attention and action, with 3-word sentences tending to be the norm...

Anybody recall any fuss being made over the cats in 2011?  And that was a POLITICIAN who had an issue with it!!!!   IMO that seems just as bad, if not worse, than a skilled tatooist working on his dog under his Vet's supervision, JMHO.

IMO declawing is even WORSE, isn't it? 

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2014, 10:47:46 AM »
Anyone know if any US  cities or states have banned declawing yet?

http://www.pawproject.org/legislation/
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Is This Stuff True?
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2014, 11:19:18 AM »
Wow, guess I wasn't exaggerating about California!!  NINE California towns have it banned!!!   :) DrLisaPiersonWorthy
(Sucks not to live there.) 


Also ( this was mentioned in one of the declawing threads smewhere, but to reiterate:)

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In 2003, Dr. Conrad and The Paw Project team provided data about the debilitating effects of declawing to the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA), which then changed its position on declawing of wild and exotic cats to no longer condone it. The Canadian Veterinary Medical Association quickly followed suit.

 

'Hare